| Author |
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Brad Smith (Tank)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, September 03, 2005 - 09:25 pm: | 
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Help can anyone tell me the best way to re-attatch the ends of the front bumper on my 153a jeep !! Please.
(Message edited by dinkycollect on November 28, 2005) |
Jacques Dujardin (Dinkycollect)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 28, 2005 - 02:22 pm: |
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Resized picture from Brad Smith. |
Les Pickstock (Tailstock)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 12:30 am: |
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If it were my job to do I think I would very carefully glue it with the tiniest amount of epoxy.
Clean the mating surfaces with Meths and clean off any epoxy that squidges out with meths also.
For I more secure job you could drill and pin the repair with a steel pin but as it not likely that you'll be driving the jeep around the living room carpet, glue will probably suffice. |
Brad Smith (Tank)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 09:58 pm: |
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Many thanks i'll give it a go
Brad
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james lloyd (Jim_lloyd)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, September 04, 2005 - 11:11 pm: |
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just cut the remaining bumper off, and buy a replacement from steve flowers model shop |
Johan van Zyl (Johan)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 06:34 am: |
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Hi everyone! I am researching the Dinky jeep 153a and am puzzled by some aspects of my facts gleaned so far. Perhaps some of you could help me, please. (i) How could the Dinky design team have changed the die from a flat bonnet to a domed bonnet in 1947 if the real Willys MB only had a flat bonnet? (ii) All 153a's are considered to belong to the first casting of the jeep. Surely the two bonnet types imply TWO castings? Any and all help and advice will be greatly appreciated! |
Jacques Dujardin (Dinkycollect)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 08:43 am: |
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According to Keith Harvie in his excellent but short lived Binns Road Gazette n° 1 (1999)
there were two dies.
The variations are as follows ;
• 1946 First casting with flat bonnet and solid steering wheel.
• 1947 As above but with open steering wheel.
• 1947 - 48 new die with raised bonnet center, flush ejector marks.
• 1948 as above but with raised ejector marks (the ejectors were too short or
worn).
• 1948 - 52 as above but with circular painting ring.
• 1952 - 55 as above but with reinforcements under the bonnet, flush ejector marks, crimped
or domed regular or blackened axles. For export only. |
Johan van Zyl (Johan)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 11:50 am: |
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Jacques, I am overwhelmed by the promptness of your reply, and thank you most kindly. I have a six page draft article (The Dinky Jeep 153a, 25j & 672) nearly ready to provide free for the information of anyone who would like to read it. I have gone to pains to make it as trustworthy as possible with the limited information at my disposal. Your kind and valuable reply has been worked into the article already with mention of your contribution in the reference list. Some more work has to be done, and I hope to further clarify matters in the coming few days. (i) Pray tell, what are "ejector marks" and "painting rings"? (ii) I believe a mock-up of a jeep must have been made way back in 1945 or '46 before they machined the metal die for casting the model. Does anyone know anything about this mock-up? Was it a wooden or clay mock-up? |
Jacques Dujardin (Dinkycollect)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 01:30 pm: |
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Johan,
I am busy this afternoon and will give more info on "painting ring" and "ejectors" later on. In the mean time, could you send me your email so that I can send you some unpublishable documents? |
Jacques Dujardin (Dinkycollect)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, November 18, 2005 - 10:39 pm: |
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Johan,
I hope that this will answer your question about ejector marks.
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Bob Barnes (Raab)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 19, 2005 - 02:46 am: |
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Evening Johan
I would like a copy of your article in draft mode and if possible final mode.
Thanks
Bob |
Jan Werner (Janwerner)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 19, 2005 - 05:36 am: |
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Jacques, thank you very much for the very clear scheme of the casting ejection. Most of us will know how it works, but these profiles leave nothing open to question!
Undoubtedly among the 'unpublishable documents' Jacques will send is a copy of the article in Binns Road Gazette (p 5-18) which is indispensable for the analysis of 153a. There is hardly anything to add, and all extant factory drawings are shown there. These drawings have been auctioned by Christie's during the 14 September 1995 auction (no. 178)
Job no. 12140, Jeep 153A side + aerial + rear elevs. d.d. 29-10-1945, signed H.M.
Job no. 12142, Jeep windscreen d.d. 26-10-1945, signed H.M.
Job no. 12143, Jeep steering column d.d. 26-10-1945, signed H.M.
The first announcement in Meccano Magazine of April 1946
The picture of the assy in the Christie's catalogue (much more detailed by Keith Harvey in his Binns Road Gazette)
And a reference to the (non-extant anymore?) assembly drawing 12140A of the civilian 25j
Johan, we look forward to the publication (in whatever way) of your article. Of course much leaves to be commented on the Dinky jeeps. A club of eager Dinky fans is waiting!
Good luck and kind regards, Jan Werner |
Jacques Dujardin (Dinkycollect)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, November 19, 2005 - 09:50 am: |
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Photo from the May 1961 issue of the english Meccano Magazine showing in the foreground the loading
area of the painting line, in the background, the painter and above her left hand the entrance of the baking tunnel. |
Richard hinds (Rhinds)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, November 20, 2005 - 05:36 pm: |
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Hi guys,
I've been following this thread with great interest, as I didn't know about ejector marks either. What a wonderful & informative response. I've learnt a lot, so thanks to all who contributed. What an enjoyable site this is.
Regards, Richard Hinds |
Johan van Zyl (Johan)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 21, 2005 - 06:37 am: |
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Jacques, I have sent you my e-mail as you requested, with thanks. It was sent to Dinkycollect.
Bob Barnes, it will be done. I'll just finalise it first. Of course, I'm not pretending to be a boffin - it's just my way of trying to contribute.
Jan Werner, very interesting indeed! You'll note the lightly treaded tyres. The 153A I received from England just this past Saturday still has these tyres. I don't suppose they are still available new. I want to keep the tyres on my model because I'm a purist when it comes to Dinkies.
Richard Hinds, So say all of us! |
Johan van Zyl (Johan)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 21, 2005 - 08:29 am: |
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THE DINKY JEEP
153A, 25J & 672
by Johan van Zyl
November 2005
Will readers of this article please comment
and help to identify dubious statements. It is the desire of the author to
present only correct facts and justifiable assumptions.
Modelled miniatures and the jeep
"Modelled Miniatures" were introduced in 1931 by the Frank Hornby toy firm of Meccano Ltd. at the Binns Road factory in Liverpool, England, and were intended to be used as accessories, to accompany Hornby train sets. These models became very popular and in1934 the name was changed to "Dinky Toys". Production continued at the Binns Road plant until its doors were closed in 1977. A branch of the firm was also opened in Bobigny, France.
Certainly, the first casting of the Dinky jeep is a landmark in the history of Meccano. The jeep with catalogue no. 153A was the first model to be made by the British plant after the Second World War.
Will the real jeep please stand up?
I can well imagine the Meccano management committee, after cessation of wartime hostilities, coming up with the idea of designing a model of the Willys jeep. Even so soon after the war the Willys MB had won the respect of all those who came into contact with it. Some today refer to the jeep as being the hero of the war, as it played its role in every theatre of the strife, in every conceivable role, and with every Allied army. Of course, there was also the Ford GPW, the Willys' exact look-alike, which served in its shadow. But it served in no less efficient manner, and now both these jeeps are equally popular and cherished by collectors and restorers.
[put photo of full-size Willys MB jeep here]
It detracts somewhat from the Willys MB's claim to fame that the most definitive feature of its outward appearance is not a design of its own. In fact, it was Ford who designed the pressed radiator grille by which the jeep would be universally recognised.
Following the Meccano committee's decision to model the jeep, the design team got to work on the crafting of the die, from which would come the first casting. It is a feather in the designers' cap that the real jeep's outward characteristics by which it is widely recognised, is well represented in the first issue of the Dinky jeep 153A.
Five jeep castings - maybe six
It is reported that there were five original jeep castings over the years of Dinky Toy manufacture, most of which represented the now-famous Willys MB. Some of these castings are higher in my esteem than others. It is the first casting of the jeep series to which this article is devoted. In the run of this 68 mm long casting, three model numbers were introduced. These are:
No. 153A, military MB, 1946-1948, made in England
No. 25J, civilian MB, 1947-1948, made in England
No. 672, military MB, 1954, made in England.
These models were made to a scale of approximately 1:48, which blended in with O scale railway models. Checking up on this, I found a full-size Willys MB to be 3 327 mm long. On calculation, this gives a scale of 1:49. It's been reported the army models were all made to a smaller scale (according to one source about 3/16th of an inch to the foot - 1:64), than the other Dinkies. In contrast, the Dinky Universal jeep for example (no. 25Y/405), is on a scale of 1:40. In the matter of scale, Dinky Toys have tended to be erratic.
My interest
What I personally like about the first casting is its obvious historical value. The early success of Dinky Toys came to an abrupt halt as a result of the Second World War. The Dinky enterprise started up again with this jeep model first off the production line in 1946 (which is my year of birth), together with a Lagonda sports coupé. But the difference is, the jeep was a new design.
Then there's my personal nostalgic attachment. The Dinky jeep 153A was one of the toys that I played with regularly during the middle 1950's. I especially loved this jeep, finding that it conformed ideally to my youthful prerequisites in terms of shape, handling and, well, general playability. It served as my reconnaissance car that I used to imagine myself travelling in, racing up and down my columns of other military Dinkies, getting them ready for the next engagement! Sadly, that jeep was lost sometime during my high school years. I think I might have given it - in an unguarded moment - in exchange for something else to the kid next door, who had quite a large number of Dinkies.
A final aspect of the first casting which I like is the absence of plastic in the materials used at that stage. Plastic as we know it had not been developed. For the basic casting the metal used throughout is a type of pewter, an alloy of zinc, aluminium and copper. The additions put on afterwards during the assembly process include pewter (for the wheel hubs and steering wheel), steel plate (for the windscreen and spare wheel rim), steel wire (for the axles and steering column) and rubber (for the tyres).
Die-casting
The die-casting of the Dinky jeep is an industrial process which came into being towards the end of the Great War (WW I). It simply means introducing molten metal into a mould. The only real drawback to die-casting is the cost of making the die for each new model. Die-making as in the Dinky jeep is a process requiring great engineering skill, beginning with the handcrafting of a clay or wooden mock-up of the jeep, perfect to the tiniest detail. The really fine features like lines and radiator grilles could be added with wire. From the mock-up the metal die (mould) is made. The delicacy of the initial work is limited only by the ability of the casting metal to flow successfully into the smallest crevices of the mould. The process used allows almost hairline detail to be incorporated into the surface of the model. In fact the first casting of the Dinky jeep is very detailed, with, for example, grab handles and a shovel on the side of the body.
[put photo of typical Dinky die here]
The preferred pewter type for die-casting toys like the Dinky jeep is mazak, which is a zinc alloy. Basically it's zinc with 3-4% aluminium and 1-2% copper added, and was used from 1934 onwards.
In die-casting the Dinky jeep the molten metal is forced under pressure into the die. This process is called injection moulding. The die, a relatively ingenious and intricate affair, is basically a two-part metal negative of the finished model. As soon as the casting has cooled to its solid state the die is opened and the basis for the finished model falls out.
Each jeep casting is tumbled in what is called a Roto-finishing process, in a rubber-lined drum partly filled with small, loose pebbles and soapy water to remove any "flash", the unwanted residue of the casting process. Next comes a chemical preparation (called a Bonderising liquid) to help the enamel paint bond to the metal, and then the paint itself is applied by spray gun as the models rotate along a conveyor belt to the ovens. Baked on at 200°F, the finish is extremely durable. Detail work is hand sprayed through masks before the final assembly is completed.
In some of the earliest pre-war toy castings (before the jeep), lead was used as part of the alloy. The slightest contamination of this mixture causes that bane of early die-cast collectors, metal fatigue. Most die-cast enthusiasts are spared this - only collectors of pre-war models must beware. The jeep first casting fortunately falls outside of that time frame. Dinkies like the jeep 153A produced immediately post-war showed in the quality of the models that the firm had served its apprenticeship admirably, and had licked the metal problem as well.
The first casting
When talking about the first casting of the Dinky jeep, it is obvious we have here a basic jeep body shape that will be exactly the same throughout the run of the first casting.
[put photo of jeep Meccano drawing here]
During final assembly, the attachments like axles, hubs and tyres, spare wheel mounting, spare wheel, steering wheel, and windscreen are added. The axles are made in the machine shop, and the axle ends formed to keep the wheels from falling off. It is in the choice of some of these fittings that variations occur.
The two army versions (no. 153A and 672, the latter being for export) are painted dark (matt) green. It seems there were also some jeeps brought out in green-brown for a time. But from about 1950 they came in matt green only. The army versions have a white U.S. star decal on the hood. The single "civilian" model (25J, coming out in 1947) was simply painted other colours - how many different colours is not known to me, but red, green and blue have been come across. Gibson listed only red and green.
[put photo of 25J here]
It has been stated that among the jeeps produced in the first casting there are those with flat bonnets, as well as those having a longitudinal ridge running down the bonnet. These facts initially presented me with a major problem in interpretation, because a difference in bonnet shape implies two different castings. Obviously it requires a different mould to make a jeep with a more domed bonnet! I also learned, according to the Richardsons, that the bonnet of the jeeps produced in 1946-1947 is flat. The domed (ridged) bonnet started coming in 1947. Seems one can expect to find 153A's as well as 25J's having both flat and domed bonnets.
The origin of the flat/domed bonnet remains a mystery. The actual full-size wartime Willys MB has a flat bonnet. Why would Dinky have made a die for a jeep having a bonnet quite unlike the real thing, while already producing a correct version?
I was pondering these questions when Jacques Dujardin volunteered invaluable information. He confirmed that, according to Keith Harvie in his excellent but short-lived Binns Road Gazette no. 1 (1999), there were two dies. The variations are as follows:
• 1946 First casting with flat bonnet and solid steering wheel
• 1947 As above but with open steering wheel
• 1947 - 48 New die with raised bonnet centre, flush ejector marks
• 1948 As above but with raised ejector marks (the ejectors were too short or worn).
• 1948 - 52 As above but with circular painting ring
• 1952 - 55 As above but with reinforcements under the bonnet, flush ejector marks, crimped or domed regular or blackened axles. For export only.
The marketing of the first casting
The first post-war Dinky Toy adverts appeared in The Meccano Magazine in April 1946 and featured the jeep 153A. There was another model also on the first advert, but that one was a re-issue. The jeep was the only post-war design, eloquently described as "a wonderfully realistic miniature of the most famous car of the war. On all fronts, in all countries, the jeep was ready to go anywhere and do anything". The price was 2/6 (half-a-crown) each, including tax. In March 1948 the price upped to 2/9.
(put photo of 153A jeep here, as in first advert by Meccano Magazine)
In the picture on the advert the jeep is shown with a flat bonnet, and lightly treaded tyres. The same illustration was used until it was dropped from the Meccano Magazine adverts by December 1948, the reason probably being that there were so many new additions by this time, and space, as always, was at a premium.
During the course of production of the 153A it was decided to bring out a civilian version, distinguishable from its army counterpart only in the colours used. Thus the 25J arrived in 1947 and kept coming until 1948. The domed bonnet phenomenon also reared its head in 1947, in both 153A and 25J guise. In 1952 the 672 (outwardly the same as the 153A) was produced for export to the United States. Seems it was made available individually and included in a set of five military vehicles.
According to a variety of sources the 153A/25J/672 was produced until 1955. It was then when the models were deleted from the Meccano literature. Approximately at this stage the Austin Champ (catalogue no. 674) took away the shine of the Willys jeep in the eyes of the British people, both in the Dinky Toy catalogue and in real life.
Probably no-one knows how many units of the 153A/25J/672 were actually produced.
Variations
The variations (besides colour) that occur within the flat bonnet and domed bonnet castings seem to be as follows:
• Axle ends - in some instances they were flattened, like a screwdriver bit. In others rivet-shaped heads were formed on the axle ends by means of a specially shaped rivetting tool. The flattened ends were first, then came the rounded ends.
• Steering wheel - solid (with the space between the spokes filled in) versus spoked. The solid was first, and is found only in the 1946 vintage models.
• Type of tyre - smooth rubber tyres versus treaded. Until 1947 all Dinky tyres had been smooth, but over the next few years a variety of treaded rubber tyres were produced. In the case of the 153A, however, all the Meccano Magazine adverts in which a photo of the jeep appears since April 1946 shows clearly that it was fitted with tyres having a light tread. It can only be assumed that smooth tyres on most 153A's are later replacements.
• Wheel hubs - smooth versus ridged. The plants (both in England and in France) had used plain cast wheel hubs - pre-war leftovers - but late in 1946 the models began to appear with more realistic cast hubs with a raised central section, simulating a nave-plate.
[put photo of 153A here, with domed bonnet clearly visible,
as well as rounded axle ends and smooth tyres]
It has been said that a 153A with plain hubs and a solid steering wheel is a bit of an oddity, because it is a mix of pre-war and post-war features.
The windscreen on the first casting is always rigid, that is, not hinged. Only when the much later French Dinky jeep (modelled after the Hotchkiss M201) appeared - a different casting altogether - did the windscreen fold forward.
[put photo of French Dinky jeep here]
The 672 is the same as the 153A, merely marketed by that number in the United States in the early fifties. One would expect the same variations that occur in the 153A to also appear in the 672 (and the civilian 25J, for that matter).
The box question
Individual boxes for the jeep came in the late forties.
Most collectors seem to think that the 153A only came in trade packs of 6, but for a short while it did have its own box. The earliest Dinkies (before the jeep) did not have individual boxes - they were packed in retailer's boxes of six.
[put photo of 153A jeep on six-pack box here]
The 153A in my possession
Because of the lack of Dinky jeeps in my immediate vicinity, I was brought into contact with a gentleman in Pretoria who was familiar with e-bay auctions. During September 2005 I requested him to search and bid for an early jeep for me, after agreeing on a suitable amount to offer. Five weeks later I received word from him that one of his bids had been successful. After a lengthy wait I finally took possession of my own 153A, on November 17th.
The seller lives in Ilfracombe, Devon County, England. Ilfracombe is a seaside resort on the north coast of Devon, with a small harbour, surrounded by cliffs. The pleasantly heavy Dinky jeep I gingerly extricated from the package had been advertised as "in very good - near mint - condition, dark green body with white star on the bonnet and on the left rear side, and spoked steering wheel. Made in England, no restoration - all original". The winning bid had been £44,80. I found to my gratitude that the model was in the condition as advertised.
[put photo of my 153A here]
In fact, after scrutinising it minutely, I found it to be in virtually immaculate condition. I did no more than remove a few grains of fine reddish sand particles from some of the furthest recesses of the jeep and cleaned up the axles, which were ever so slightly tarnished.
Turning the jeep over, I saw that the ejector marks were flush, as was the painting ring. Making use of the Binns Road Gazette variations list, I concluded that my jeep, with its flat bonnet and open steering wheel, was indeed a 1947 model.
I wondered where this little toy had lain for all these 58 long years without falling into the clutches of a child and consequently suffering its rough attentions. In the final analysis, I mused, that was the purpose for which this jeep had been manufactured in the first place!
One might say it missed its goal in life. It was instead destined to end up in the care of an enthusiast living more than 9 000 km away near the southern tip of the continent of Africa.
References
1. Cholmondeley, Keith. 2004. A Brief History. [on line.] Available from: http://dinkytradebox.com/ephemera.html. [Accessed 04/11/05]
2. Clarke, David. A Dinky life, the illustrated history of a passion by a long-time collector of die-cast toys. [on line.] Available from: http://www.worldcollectorsnet.com/die-cast/dinkylife.html. [Accessed 04/11/05]
3. Dinky Toys of Liverpool. [on line.] Available from: http://toysnz.com/Typoserver002/16.html. [Accessed 04/11/2005]
4. Dujardin, Jacques. 2005. Communication through Dinkyclub forum. November 18.
5. Gibson, C. 1980. A History of British Dinky Toys 1934 - 1964. London: Model Aeronautical Press Ltd.
6. Greening, David. 2002. Memories of Binns Road. [on line]. Available from: http://www.dalefield.com/nzfmm/magazine/binns_road_memoriesFeb02.html. [Accessed 04/11/05]
7. La Bourse des Collectionneurs. [on line.] Available from: http://www.aquitaine33.com/dinky/jeep/index.htm. [Accessed 18/11/2005]
8. Pearson, Pete. 2005. Communication by e-mail.
9. Redmond, Derek. 2005. Communication by email.
10. Richardson, Mike & Sue. Dinky Toys and Modelled Miniatures. The Hornby Companion series.
11. Skonieczny, J. & Redmond, D. Dinky Toys Jeeps. [online.] Available from: http://www.film.queensu.ca/CJ3B/Toys/DinkyToys.html. [Accessed 29/09/05]
12. Stanford, Tony. Dinky Toys 1941 - 1950: The Favourite Collecting Hobby. London: The Cranbourne Press Ltd.
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Peter Golden (Goldenp)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 21, 2005 - 11:07 am: |
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One slight correction, is that this was not the first model made by the British plant after the second World War, but the first entirely new model made ...
Dinky was making plenty of models based on pre-war castings. Many of which had subtle changes (all had axle enlargement)
Other than that it seems a great piece |
Jacques Hammel (Jhammel)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 21, 2005 - 07:07 pm: |
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There is also the 24M made by Bobigny- although no mention of origin underneath - in those years with solid steel inverted wheels, giving it a true Jeep-like appearance. I am sure Jacques D. will give us more details about it...
Il ne faut pas oublier la 24M apparemment produite par Bobigny a cette epoque, avec des roues en acier et inversees, lui donnant un air plus reel de Jeep. Jacques D. se fera sans doute un plaisir de nous donner plus de details ...
Jacques H. |
Jan Werner (Janwerner)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 21, 2005 - 08:38 pm: |
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Hello Johan,
I like your approach of this case study very much! Also the personal touch in it, combined with the exact historical and technical facts. I cannot see or discuss a model apart from its historical perspective either. Even world history cannot be left out to understand or explain in my opinion. Of course there is also a lot of ‘general’ Dinky information in it, but that is unavoidable when discussing every aspect of this little model.
No, the plain hubs (and solid steering wheel) are no oddity. They were used in 1945 and 1946. They differ from the pre-war ones in that they have larger holes in the centre to accommodate the thicker post war axles.
The finely treaded tyres seem to have been adopted immediately post war already, as there are examples of models with the abovementioned early smooth hubs which (apparently) have original treaded tyres. One of my no. 152b Reconnaissance Cars with early post war smooth hubs has even WHITE treaded tyres (which I like very much; did a Jeep with these white tyres ever come up?). Possibly the treaded tyres were used pre war already, but I really am not quite sure of that. I think there is no very distinctive period, they were used mixed with the smooth tyres. But they are early in my opinion, and the later (say post-1950) Jeeps and related vehicles only had smooth tyres as far as I have experienced.
I look forward to the final version of your article, in print, and illustrated.
Kind regards, Jan Werner
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Bob Barnes (Raab)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 21, 2005 - 09:51 pm: |
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Hi Johan
My comments:
Willys MB - does the MB have any special implication - if yes, then it would be nice to explain.
Ford GPW - same comment as Willys
Where you add the first picture, the next sentence begins with "It" I think that you loose the backward reference and should describe the "It"
I like your personal comments as a child (I was born in 1939 in Canada). I remember that I stayed home from school with the mumps and played with my Dinky Military toys. I rearranged the sofa cushions to make hills and valleys. I had a number of light tanks, a medium tank, several jeeps, soldiers, etc.
Were jeeps produced with other than the American star decal - i.e., Canadian, British, etc symbols? It would be nice to mention in either situation.
I like the detailed explanation of the design, creation and assembly of the Toys. It sure explains a lot and also why the Dinky toys were so realistic.
I sure learned a lot from the article.
Thanks for the article and the effort that was epended to create it. A true Dinky Toy hobbyist.
Bob
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Bob Barnes (Raab)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 21, 2005 - 10:49 pm: |
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Hi
I was just looking at my collection and I have an 80B - Hotchkiss Jeep. Where does it fit within the jeep scheme? My Hotchkiss has not decal on the hood.
Bob |
Jacques Dujardin (Dinkycollect)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 21, 2005 - 11:34 pm: |
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Bob,
The US army launched a competition to build a General Purpose (GP) vehicle to replace
the motorcycles + side cars. The abraviation GP was pronounced jeep and this is where
this famous name comes from.
The design of American Bantam was chosen but this firm being to small to produce the
quantities necessary, the production was allocated to Ford and Willys. American Bantam
produced the special Jeep trailer.
There are only two small differences between between the original Ford and Willys :
there is a Ford logo on the rear panel between the two rear bumpers and the covers of
the boxes situated on each side of the rear seat are reinforced by ridges.
Meccano France issued the Jeep in 1946 under the reference 24 m. This model was fitted
with the early all metal wheels due to the shortage in rubber at that time. For a picture
go to french Dinky --> 24m Jeep.
There were two versions with the same reference:
• Jeep militaire produced in 1946 only with US star in circle on the bonnet and a small
star cast at the very rear of the left side. Scale 1 : 50.
• Jeep civile 1946 - 1949. Scale 1 : 43.
Like the Liverpool Jeep 153 a, the french Dinky is the first new model to be issued after
the war.
There was a project by Meccano France to produce a "Jeep avec remorque" jeep with trailer
(reference 24 mr) but the project did not go through and the Jeep was never fitted with a
tow hook.
The two wheel trailer 25 s or 25 t which looks very much like the Bantam Jeep trailer was
issued in 1949 when the Jeep was withdrawn, it's scale is probably 1 : 55.
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Jacques Dujardin (Dinkycollect)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 21, 2005 - 11:42 pm: |
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Bob,
The Hotchkiss Jeep is a Jeep made in France under licence for the french army.
Produced by Meccano France between 1957 and 1971 there are several variations :
80 b Jeep
80 bp - 816 Jeep avec conducteur
828 Jeep SS 10
829 Jeep avec canon de 106 SR
1412 Jeep de dépannage
This is a different die from the 1946 Jeep 24 m and all the Jeeps made in Liverpool.
(Message edited by dinkycollect on November 21, 2005) |
Bob Barnes (Raab)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 02:16 am: |
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Does anyone think that Johan should include these other jeep variations in his article? If he does, then it would be a more complete article on jeeps and not an article that refers to the 153A model only.
Of course, it would mean more work for Johan.
Bob |
Johan van Zyl (Johan)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 06:19 am: |
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Very briefly:
Peter Golden - thanks, your kind (and totally correct) comment has been made use of.
Jacques H - thanks also, I am considering putting in something about the 24M.
Jan Werner - you flatter me, but I truly appreciate. I loved working on the article, but it was awesomely tiring. I'm finalising it this month. Thanks also for the pics.
Bob B - thanks also. You seem to understand what drives me to tackle an article like this. The story about the "real jeep" has been covered by me in an article which has just recently been published in the Newsletter of the Sourh African School of Armour here in Bloemfontein.
Bob & Jacques D - The Dinky Hotchkiss deserves to be mentioned in just a little bit more detail in my article; I will bring in an extra few sentences. I cannot, however, entertain the idea of bringing in ALL the Dinky jeep variations, because it would make the article too bulky. The French Dinky jeeps, for instance, deserve an article of their own, not necessarily under my authorship.
TO ALL SO FAR, MY SINCEREST THANKS AND GRATITUDE FOR EVERY AND ALL COMMENT(S)! |
Johan van Zyl (Johan)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 08:29 am: |
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I need to ask, in order to finalise my article:
Have any one of you ever actually SEEN an original INDIVIDUAL BOX for the 153A jeep specifically? I have still only heard rumours that they exist. I do have a picture of a trade box for 6 models. |
Jan Werner (Janwerner)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 11:58 am: |
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Johan, never seen such a box, but I do not expect ever to see one: in my opinion the 153a Jeep cannot ever have been packed in individual boxes (but what is absolute in Dinky matters?).
This 153a was deleted in Britain far before the individual boxes were introduced for models of this kind. Models which were deleted in Britain c. 1950, but nevertheless continued for export until the mid-fiftees (like for instance the 38 series open sports cars and some other mostly pre war introduced items), never got individual boxes.
Adding to the 'oddity' of the post war smooth hubs and solid steering wheels: this also applies for the 38 series. Even the first batch of the 38c Lagonda, which was only produced post war (being introduced together with the Jeep), had these characteristics (I owned an example with smooth hubs and solid steering wheel once, I regret having sold it, but that was of course as to be able to buy a nicer model).
Kind regards, Jan Werner
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Johan van Zyl (Johan)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 01:40 pm: |
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Jan, my sincerest thanks for your contribution. I am working comments such as yours into my article. I am now at the stage where only the "i's" need to be dotted, so to speak. My final task is to choose suitable photos from the internet and to put them in their designated places. One of them will be the Meccano Ltd plans (drawings) of the jeep that you posted above in this thread. One more photo that I'm looking for is the drawing of the very first jeep to appear in the Meccano Magazine of April 1946. There's one above in this thread, but I need the jeep enlarged and isolated from the rest of the advert. And then I'll have to discuss with you all how to make the article available to as many Dinky jeep enthusiasts as possible. I think have a plan for that. |
Bob Barnes (Raab)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 06:38 pm: |
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Johan and et al
I really appreciate the effort that everyone applies to the club. Without everyone's input/comments, I would not be as knowledgeable or know where to look for information. No book could ever be as complete as the comments that are included in the club.
Bob
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Johan van Zyl (Johan)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 23, 2005 - 06:59 am: |
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I thought I was finished with my requests for advice and assistence! But now this flat hood / ridged hood thing is becoming a nightmare! See my latest addition to the article below. I think what I require most now is something very definite about this so-called modification to the die. What I think will work best is if I can get a clear picture (photograph) of both English types: the flat hood 153A and so-called domed hood 153A. PLEASE PLEASE.
"A few days later I was fortunate to be able to view one of the largest collections of military Dinkies in my city. Amongst the arrays of models there was a single 153A and a variety of French jeeps. Comparing the British jeep with my own, I discerned a very slight difference in the shape of the bonnet. My own jeep had a visible centre line running down the bonnet; the other jeep had a slightly raised bonnet centre. The difference was so subtle that I doubted its significance. The collector and I both ran our fingers over the bonnet centre of each jeep. Now the French ones: THEY had flat bonnets! I concluded that maybe I was attaching too much importance to this modification, if present." |
Bob Barnes (Raab)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 23, 2005 - 07:30 pm: |
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Johan
I have two jeeps. I looked at both and they have a slightly raised center. I also ran my hand over the hood and I could feel the slight rise in the center.
Maybe you could send a message to Keith Harvie and see what his comments are.
Bob |
Jos van Blokland (Josvanblokland)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 23, 2005 - 09:04 pm: |
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Hi Johan and all others interested in this thread, here is a picture of the two jeeps, one with a flat bonnet and one with a domed bonnet (which also has a distinct visible centre line from the windcreen in the middle of the bonnet to the grill.
Cheers, Jos van Blokland, The Netherlands.
(Message edited by dinkycollect on November 29, 2005) |
Jos van Blokland (Josvanblokland)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 23, 2005 - 09:09 pm: |
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Hello all,
Here another contribution: a picture of three different tradebox types (only missing the dual numbered tradebox)
Cheers, Jos van Blokland, The Netherlands
(Message edited by dinkycollect on November 29, 2005) |
Jacques Dujardin (Dinkycollect)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 12:51 pm: |
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Resized pictures from Jos van Blokland. |
Jan Werner (Janwerner)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 23, 2005 - 09:39 pm: |
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Collectie om van te watertanden Jos. Bedankt voor de mooie plaatjes, ik stop ze wel meteen in mijn eigen Dinky documentatie hoor!
Die van de doosjes heb ik een beetje aangepast, zal ik in de sectie trade boxes zetten.
Zou er behalve de drie van jou en de genoemde ontbrekende ook niet een trade box no. 672 bestaan?
Great collection Jos, thanks for the nice pics, I take the liberty to put them in my own Dinky documentation!
I adjusted the trade box image a tiny bit in order to put it in the trade boxes section.
Could a fifth trade box no. 672 be in existence, besides the three boxes in your possession and the missing one you mentioned already?
Met vriendelijke groet, kind regards, Jan Werner |
Jacques Dujardin (Dinkycollect)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 23, 2005 - 10:11 pm: |
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Jan,
Yes there was from 1952 to 1955 a type 5 yellow card trade box printed "672 U.S. ARMY JEEP 153A" on both ends. as shown on pages 8 & 9 of the gazette and I am looking for a colour picture of that box. |
Johan van Zyl (Johan)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 24, 2005 - 06:20 am: |
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Of course I am so grateful to you all! I'm still in the process of finalising the article. I can't skimp on that now. It's got to be rounded off well. The photo of the two jeeps side by side will have to be included in the article, with the consent of the sender, Jos. That photo is a lifesaver!
Jos en Jan, Dinkyjeep groete aan julle. Julle sal my seker verstaan as ek in Afrikaans skryf dat ek so waarderend is vir al hierdie hulp wat ek kry van sulke gawe mense! Nogmaals hartlik dank en alles van beste!
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Jan Werner (Janwerner)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, November 24, 2005 - 10:33 am: |
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Hallo Johan, fijn dat je nu genoeg stof hebt om je Jeep verhaal af te maken.
Een beetje Zuid-Afrikaans kan geen kwaad voor het multi-liguistische karakter van deze site. Onze talen zijn in het midden van de 17e eeuw uiteen gegaan. Nu komen we in Dinky discussies weer bij elkaar. Toevallig lees ik bijna elke dag wel wat oud-Nederlands, waardoor Zuid-Afrikaans er redelijk vertrouwd uitziet.
Hi Johan, good to see that you have enough material now to finish your Jeep story.
Some South-African contributes to the multilingual character of the Dinkyclub site. Our languages split in the mid-17th century already. Now we join again in Dinky discussions. I happen to read 17th century Dutch almost every day, so South African looks familiar to me.
By the way: administrator, have our personal Dinky interest data gone? What happened?
Kind regards, Jan Werner |
Johan van Zyl (Johan)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 28, 2005 - 07:20 am: |
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Hi, all! I think the Dinky jeep article is about finished. So many of you have requested a copy, with photos. Any suggestions as to how I can supply it? I have contacted a person in USA who invited me to submit it to him for putting on the Dinky page of the website of the Jeep CJ3B. But maybe there's another way I can give it to you sooner. At the moment I have the text plus photo captions on a WP/WORD document, and then I have ten jpg files containing the photos. Please suggest the best way forward. |
Jacques Dujardin (Dinkycollect)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 28, 2005 - 10:05 am: |
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Why not post it here,
If you do not want to do it yourself, send me the files and I will upload it for you in a special thread. |
Johan van Zyl (Johan)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 28, 2005 - 11:14 am: |
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Jacques, thank you - I have just sent you the ten jpg photo files plus the article in both WORD and WORDPERFECT format. You'll see I have reacted to all the kind comment I've been receiving. I'll be looking out for the special thread. And I'm hoping the full article goes down well.
Jan Werner, as ek so lees waarmee jy jou besig hou, kan ek net vermoed dat jy 'n argivaris is! Jan Werner, on the grounds of what you have written previously, I can only conclude that you are an archivist! My own forebears came from Holland in the late 1600's. I myself am the 11th generation of my family in South Africa. In 1986 I visited Holland for a week, and amongst others visited the Hague, Bergen, and Hoorn. I have a small collection of very old Dutch coinage.
Please keep you fingers crossed for me - I just MIGHT be able to get hold of a Dinky jeep 25J this evening! |
Jan Werner (Janwerner)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, November 28, 2005 - 02:27 pm: |
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Johan, I agree with Jacques that you could quite well publish your article on this Dinky club site. It will contribute to improving the quality and usefulness of this site, and attract the interest of other Dinky enthusiasts. Nevertheless I think that publishing on paper will remain important. This medium is more swift and flexible. I write and gather pictures very quickly whenever I post an ‘article’ in these threads, whereas I always take considerably more effort and accuracy in writing a contribution that will have to be published in printed form (besides that my ‘Dutch English’ will have to be edited when published on paper). Three are in preparation for a long time already, but it will take another long time before I am really satisfied with them.
And as the old stuff is concerned: for me there is no fundamental difference in old Dinky Toys and old documents. Both are a mirror of history in their own way and both deserve their own serious (but very pleasant!) research. So there is a perfect match in hobby and profession!
Finally for you a non-Dinky South-African extra, much older than the oldest Dinky you would dream of:
http://dpc.uba.uva.nl/cgi/i/image/image-idx?sid=6ca5611530ec77cda66f8bbc6b663f6e &q1=O.K.+123&rgn1=carto_all&op2=And&q2=&rgn2=carto_all&op3=And&q3=&rgn3=carto_al l&type=boolean&g=all&op4=And&q4=&rgn4=carto_so&op5=And&q5=&rgn5=carto_te&op6=And &q6=&rgn6=carto_dr&view=thumbnail&c=carto
And .. good luck with your desired 25J purchase!
Met vriendelijke groet, kind regards.
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Johan van Zyl (Johan)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 07:28 am: |
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Jan & friends, Jacques is busy with my article plus photos now, and I expect he will soon put it in a special thread.
Jan, die ou kaart is baie interessant en insiggewend. Baie dankie. Ek het heelwat navorsing gedoen oor die Van Zyl voorgeslagte in Nederland.
Unfortunately, my endeavour to get hold of a blue jeep 25J yesterday evening did not meet with success. So I am looking out still for a French Dinky jeep 80B, a Dinky jeep 25J, and a domed bonnet jeep 153A. |
Jacques Dujardin (Dinkycollect)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 09:40 am: |
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Johan,
Your article has been posted on the dinkyclub.com site under Military --> 153 a Jeep special article. |
Johan van Zyl (Johan)
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, January 20, 2006 - 12:26 pm: |
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I am happy to say that Derek Redmond has put my article of the Dinky jeep 153a on the CJ3B Jeep website. Friends, if you would like to access that article in addition to the version previously kindly posted by Jacques Dujardin, go to the following address:
http://www.film.queensu.ca/CJ3B/Toys/Dinky153A.html
In the meantime I have managed to obtain a red Dinky jeep 25J with blue wheels on e-bay. It should reach me within about ten days. Yay! |
David John Busfield (Buzzer)
Level 6
Username: Buzzer
Post Number: 336
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, August 03, 2008 - 07:01 pm: |
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A couple of nice Jeeps I saw today
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David John Busfield (Buzzer)
Level 5
Username: Buzzer
Post Number: 806
Registered: 04-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, January 11, 2012 - 04:21 pm: |
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A nice half-tone drawing of the Willys Jeep.
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Jan Werner (Janwerner)
Level 6
Username: Janwerner
Post Number: 1570
Registered: 05-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2014 - 03:28 pm: |
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A thread for the commercial/civilian Jeep, no. 25j is lacking. Adding it to the Commercials category would place it down below
there, out of the catalogue number ranking, so perhaps presenting it here as an appendix to this military Jeep thread is an
acceptable solution.
An odd model this is, which is rather scarce, certainly compared with the regular military Jeep no. 153a.
Possibly it wasn’t very popular, because in everyone’s eyes a Jeep should only be a military jeep, so that one would have
preference when making a choice. Both shared the same casting.
The later Universal Jeep (25y/405), a true model of a jeep adjusted for agricultural use, must have been considerably more
successful, fulfilling the civilian adoption better.
I don’t know which is the basic source for its year of introduction, which is stated to be 1947. Initially Patrick Trench – in his
Dinky Toys Compendium with DT&MM – says 1947-1948. This may reflect the availability in the UK and other ‘regular’ export
countries only.
But the coloured wheels of later examples point in the direction of a longer availability (1950-1952), which is confirmed in the US
catalogue of 1951. Immediately after that reference is has disappeared in the later US catalogues (and no examples do show up
with the post-1952 rounded axle ends).
No overall factory drawing is known to exist for this civilian version, but, being the same casting, no doubt it shared the basic
design drawing with the – equally unknown – large drawing of the no. 153a Jeep. The smaller parts drawings, 12140 (assembly),
12142 & 12143 do exist. They are shown by Keith Harvie in the first issue of The Binns Road Gazette (pages 10, 11 & 12).
They refer to the general ‘Jeep’ only, and do not specify for a military or civilian version.
1947 may have been deduced from the later – not 1946 – state of this model, with the new ridged hubs, open steering
wheel, slightly raised bonnet and other related changed characteristics.
Indeed, on my Dinky jobs list index the jeep (military? civilian?) has been cancelled, like many other striked through model
names.
The ones with asterix are post-war issues. They all seem to have been discontinued in 1948/49, but probably on the home
market alone.
After waiting for a long time in order to find one in satisfactory condition I scored one recently, a red example with the early
(1947-1946) black hubs.
The examples of this civilian jeep show up in red, blue and green, all black hubs in the beginning, later on with blue, yellow and
red hubs respectively (most of them thanks to Vectis Auctions):
Having been discontinued well before the general introduction of individual Dinky Toys boxes, it has
always been sold from trade boxes of half a dozen.
Kind regards, Jan |
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